Katie: When I work with couples, often we talk about communication and connection. But it's a whole other level when you talk to a couple about running a business together. So today I've got Matt and Rebeca, and we're gonna be diving into what it's like as a couple working together, what are the challenges, but what are the amazing benefits. Welcome to the Balance Code Podcast, a place for high achievers to step outside the hamster wheel of day-to-day life and start learning tools for more balance. I'm your host, Katie Rustler, and I will be guiding you on this journey of discovering your balance code. Thank you so much, Matt and Rebeca, for being here today. I am excited to dive into this.

Matt: Hey, thanks for having us! We're looking forward to that conversation.

Rebeca: Thank you, Katie!

 Katie: Will you take a moment to share with me about yourselves? And I'm gonna ask, because this is the first time I'm interviewing a couple, how did you guys meet? And tell us a little bit about the business you've created together.

Matt: Yeah, of course! We met on a training course. In fact, we were both going through career transitions at that time, and we were training within a communication... I think it's called NLP. And it was to benefit what we were doing each at the time. We were both on that training course, and we connected and talked and shared some ideas about what we wanted to do with this...this amazing thing that we were learning. And, uh, yeah, so you see, we're both following our passion, doing something we really love, having fun. And yeah, what a great place to meet someone special!

Rebeca: Yeah, we were living very close to each other as well, and we didn't even know!  You just said it was meant to happen.

Katie: That's amazing! How beautiful. And okay, so you know you're taking time to work on yourself, but also how you're gonna work with future clients...beautiful...to then meet someone who's on that same journey. At what point, you know, did you go, "We need to do a business together, we need to work with passion"? Like, what...was that a dinner time talk happened?

Rebeca: Yeah, but we were training one day together, and we...when we met, we started to meet up to practice what we were learning with each other. So Matt was doing therapy on me, I was doing therapy on Matt, and one day he said, "Right, what are we creating together?" Out of all this style with learning, and I'm like, "Ah, Oh, so we're actually good don’t we?, I didn't even no." Okay, how did the boy know that? How funny was it? 

Matt: It's like a dream, really. So I'd recently exited my previous relationship, a long-term relationship. I was also changing my work and thinking what I wanted to do, and we just got on so well. After all, you had just started to imagine what we could create here. Maybe it's together, maybe it ends up not being together, but somehow something good is gonna come from this, and let's see what it is. 

Rebeca: And I was and I was having a few clients and various Akuma Therapies, London, and hallowed Somayo, that my last job that I had. And, and I was ready to go to the next level, and I didn't really know how because...yeah, by then everything came to... "Do the boiling point!"

Katie: I love how you said this sort of...that perfect timing, but also it was like, "I have this gut response, we're doing it." Like, what will it look like, how will this be? And so share with the audience, what is your business now? What do you guys do?

Matt: Yes, we work with couples and some individuals, but very much focused on relationships, helping people have incredible relationships. And many people come to us when they're struggling, maybe even considering ending the relationship, and they're looking for help to make sense of it, and that's where we come in. So we provide clarity, understanding. It's a bit like  some counseling, but it's much more action-focused than some counseling can be. It's also much more results-focused. Yeah, we literally guarantee people get results, so they get their money back, which most therapy doesn't work like. So we totally developed this way of working modeled off one of our mentors..there was a couple doing something quite similar to what we're doing now the amazing Nikki and Tony Lee. Who I'd worked with previously before I even met Rebeca and maybe that just planted a seed in my mind of wow this is an interesting model working together leading by example and helping couples and individuals make sense of their relationships.

Rebeca: Yes, right. Normally people come to us because they are at the brink of divorce, and they have a lot at stake, and they don't know what to do. Some people have already broken up...year after totally. But they want to be good parents for their children. And some people are not married, but they're just wondering how to start from putting the right foot in their next relationship, rather than making the same mistakes that they made in their past relationships, or the same mistakes that they know their parents did. And they don't want to go through the same journey, and they don't want to provide the same challenges to their children, or future children.

Katie: That's really powerful. I know beyond just one-to-one work with these people, you also have online resources. You've got videos, you have your own podcast. You're making sure that it's able to reach the masses, right? The tools that you're teaching, and I think it gives a lot of couples hope and inspiration that they're not alone, and there can be some, as you said, some really practical tools to start to shift things. So let's transition into working together.

Katie: So how has that journey been from day one to now? I'm going to have you talk about it a little bit objectively. If you had to describe it like weather patterns, what has the journey been like so far?

Rebeca: Talking about the weather patterns? Yeah, I think that many people would agree that being a couple working together, the forecast is quite predictable. It's going to be quite stormy, but because of the nature of our work in relationships, we do know how to navigate it, how to actually identify the storm coming and turn it around instead of indulging in the same negativity and frustration, and turn it into playfulness. And also, because we are humble, you know, we are able to look at ourselves, to identify what's happening, what we need to do differently, cut ourselves off quickly, you know, before we go into the cycle of negativity. So, so I would say it's predictable and because of the nature of our work... yeah, so that's not easy, but it's fun. It's very fun. And also, the most important thing as well, Katie, personally, my highest value is growth—personal growth, any growth, but personally, particularly personal growth. I think my best friends... otherwise, he would not be working in this. So with that in mind, we see the challenges... as challenges, as opportunities to grow and to get to the next level. And there's always a next level.

Katie: That's beautiful, Matt. Would you add anything to that?

Matt: Yeah, it looks... thanks. Then I would say that, um, it's very, very different working with a business partner that happens to be your intimate partner. So from my perspective, the qualities... if I was just... if I went to a networking meeting... the qualities I'd be looking for are very, very different to the qualities I look for in an intimate partner. So I've got to be... walk very, very carefully with Rebeca around things like accountability, because, look, in a balanced... if we are accountable, of course, we show up and we deliver and we do what we have to do. However, if our dynamic ever, ever, ever ended up as me being like, holding Rebeca accountable, that isn't good for our relationship. You know, Rebeca is at her radiant best when she's flowing and creating in a more feminine style. And yeah, sometimes I might be a bit frustrated by trying to contain that, and, but really, I know that the magic of Rebeca is not when she's in a more masculine style. So I just really try to honour that. And yeah, I really appreciate her qualities and not try to make it something that she really struggles with.

Rebeca: I love this, Katie. Totally! He's so right, because I disagree with that. The thing is that... Matt has amazing qualities as well, and if I'm going to make him or complain because he's not more like me, if I want him to be very playful and be all the time in connecting mode and, you know, in feeling smooth, he's not going to get anything done. And if he's going to rely on me getting things done, we're not here... right now. Oh my god, for that, we have Elle in our team. He's amazing, and he is really, really great, you know. He... we can rely on him, you know, and grow in our team. But I always say my top No. 1 priority is to be a very good, lovely wife for my... for my man, for my partner, and secondly, to have a business. And I... and I also love doing evening work, therapies with my clients. That's also feminine energy, and I am amazing at doing that. So we both organize our business, our work, playing with our own strengths, so we can both be aligned with love and in a very good shape, so we can show up in our best state for our partners, for our clients.

 Katie: It sounds like it's been its own personal growth journey. You've had to recognize your strengths and own your weaknesses, and then delegate and outsource the areas where it's like, "Actually, it would be really good to have someone else take care of this so that we can really be in our zone and patience, right? Just the ability... the learning process... businesses are trial and error. Did that work? Did that not work? And when we, as a single business owner, having to deal with trial and error, there's embarrassment, there's shame, there's guilt, there's all these things that we can feel. We have two individuals who are going through the trial and error process going like, "Well, how do you feel? Well, how do you feel?" "Well, I don't know." "Well, I thought you..." you know?

Katie: And it's beautiful that you guys already have the skills, because of the work you do, to navigate that. But I really want to bring light to that for anybody who's listening, that there is a lot of components to what you just shared. That it's easy for us to just see the topsoil, but there are deep roots to it, of work you had to do to get to a place to work successfully together, right?

Matt: Yeah, definitely. I mean, we... we do a lot of work, like, ongoing on mindset, you could say. Like making sure we're in a good state, a good space, because if we're not, and this does happen sometimes, I think we manage it quite well, but it can happen. If we do get a bit reactive, or negative, or triggered, then that's where things really don't work well at all. And so really, that... that ability to appreciate the difference in the other person is only really possible when we're in a really good emotional place, because if we're not, then it just turns into, "Oh, why can't you be a bit more like me?" or something I say, and then it just doesn't work. And what you realize eventually is like, the magic of the relationship is not in your partner being more like you; it's in being exactly how they need to be. Yeah, and when we truly accept each other that way, that's when it can become magic. But yeah, it does require work, for sure, to get ourselves to that place.

Rebeca: That's right. And sometimes, you know, our clients say that they didn't have a good mother to role... a good role mother to model, and they are upsetting us, and they are love our dynamic... out of the norm. And we look at that... they love me with completely good thinking that today we have a good day because they are worrying us. And of course, we also have our challenges sometimes, like Matt says, and we work so much as well, sometimes so hard. We make sure that we can allow time for ourselves, particularly when we're going to have two intensives. They work with a couple in person, that it's quite... can be quite draining. And also, the online, online work that we do every month, we do with some individuals again, two intensives a day, every month. They will need to be in a good place, so we make sure that before those two days, we are... we did some time for ourselves, either together as a couple, or just on our own, doing our own thing, catching up. That's super, super important. And we also have these, like, setting boundaries, not talking about business in bed, because you would not talk about the bills, right, with your dating partner, or about the mortgage. But while in theory... so we try to have boundaries also when we are in the so-called... watching our program together, make sure that we are at... we have a date at nine, and I'm keeping working on the computer, you know, and like, "Get me down," or emails, WhatsApp from clients. We need boundaries.

Katie: I really enjoyed the fact that you point out, Rebeca, that the relationship is first, the business is second. And I think in today's society, especially for high achievers, the business comes first because of our need to feel like we're accomplishing. But the greater accomplishment we all desire is to have that healthy relationship that we can have at the end of the day, right? I always do the, um... I call it the 80th birthday exercise. People like to do the funeral; I like to do the birthday. And it's, "What do you want people to say about you then? What do you want your partner to say?" And rarely is it, "He or she works so hard, with all this money came in, and all this time and stuff." It's that they were caring and they were there for us. And when we remember that the relationship is first, the business can have its fun, and boundaries are a lot easier to put in place, I think.

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Katie: Now, we did an episode for your podcast about cultural differences. Let's speak to that, because you come from different cultures, different countries. You're living in a different... well, for you, a different region of your home continent. Let's talk about how it has been culturally as business partners, understanding that background, too.

Matt: Yeah, let's take me some... some differences to show. I think in the UK, here, we're more... and when they hear them in Germany, I think we're a bit more like on... on schedule. Yeah, people are expected to be on time, to show up, to be reliable, and, um... so I guess to be seen like, in a professional domain, there are expectations here, you know, about how we show up and so on, um, which I think mainly we do quite well. Uh, maybe if we that then you know, I just embrace thats Rebeca maybe sometimes we do see things a bit differently or just have different priorities not because she's you know a bad person just because she's got a different style and different character and from a different culture. So, again I forget there are some differences that would be the one that I can I think also people in the UK are quite reserved maybe a bit more general. You said that has been an issue sometimes not massively but that's right sometimes people um. Yeah, it can be a bit of a shock when you encounter Rebeca if you're from a very, a very conservative softly spoken and reserved that will express our feelings and meeting me Rebeca can be a bit like plugging yourself into the wall socket to help. 

Rebeca: I totally agreed Katie. Definitely there are thousand or differences and again like following on our inner conversation that in the previous podcast that we did. I don't know if it's my personality or the culture but I definitely see the culture has a big influence, and indefinitely, I can be quite too much for some people in this country. Maybe I talk too much; I take too many details, you know. But that cannot be inspiring for people here, and... and also them... I just find that in the UK, people are very crucial... very well-mentioned in every word that they say, how they say, and more short than long, you know, like always, and very cautious, very... it's not the same in Spain in general, in the culture, and definitely not me like that. I... I give it all, you know. I can be loud; I can be intense emotionally, and I can be very friendly and overly... overly friendly, overly connected, when people are cold shoes, you know. And that would be perceived as... as not being professional. But then if you think about what is being professional, everything has the meaning that you want to give it. And obviously, if in this country there is a different meaning to being professional, it may not be the meaning that I am giving, because for me, it's not about being authentic. I was expressing yourself always with respect, but about not holding back. And that comes very, very good to me, and my clients say that when it comes to being coaching... not doing therapy, but doing coaching, because I'm all out, and Matt said, "I come..." People don't need... the leadership has not... but people pay for results. So I'm all out. And yeah, and definitely there are differences.

Katie: Well, I think this is another piece where that patience, that understanding, that awareness that you guys talked about in the beginning is so key when running a business together, because it's not like you both are just coworkers at a company, like you're really running the business together and have, again, those strengths that you have. If a couple is listening to this and they're like, "We've been considering starting a business together," what would be some tips you would give them in the early stages of just formulating the ideas?

Matt: Yeah, I would say to, um... to be very clear about the different roles that you're going to have and, to the greatest extent possible, to try to match up your natural skills and tendencies with those roles. So if there's a creative element, well, which one of you is the more creative? And which one of you likes to design and do colours then? Because that's always going to fit comfortably for that person. And yeah, maybe there is someone who is a bit more of a... the sort of go-getter that's going to make the sales and do the marketing and get that stuff done. And maybe there's someone that naturally has more that tendency. And if they do, then wouldn't it be good to just respect that in the way that you deviate the roles? Not necessarily in a very rigid way, but just to have that sense of different areas of responsibility that fit with your natural style.

Rebeca: I totally agree with that, so they can have a... a dance that flows well without tensions, you know. And also, I would definitely avoid, by all means, competition between partners, and rather appreciate the gifts that both bring to the table. That's number one.

Katie: I think that's... that's an amazing thing for us to think about because competition can easily come up. "Well, I thought of this idea. Well, I did this. Well, I..." you know, and it becomes the one-up sort of situation that becomes toxic in business and in relationships.

Rebeca: Exactly. Also, you know, there are some gifts that are considered... what are more and highly valued, particularly by society, because they... they are the gift that people see that are producing the results, you know, and make a sale and closing a new deal, and meeting a new important person that's going to bring a lot, and you know, the business, for example. But then there are other gifts that are out of the program, allowing them to close that sale, for example, or actually to... to get two souls. And those gifts could be naturing the clients, looking after the clients, making sure that no one is missing anything, making sure that the process runs smooth, everyone has the links, the videos of the... whatever they need, you know, and then the nurturing, the looking after people, relationships. Or to me, that's... that's pretty good. And also... and also that branding, for example... for example, branding consistency, making sure that everything looks nice, feels good, rather than just making it happen anyhow. But then the making it happen also is absolutely important because if the person making it happen is not there, then nothing happens. There's only answering in... in branding, in beautiful things and people feeling good, but nothing is happening. So both gifts are absolutely critical, and this is why I'm saying no competition, just appreciation.

Katie: What would you suggest to someone who says, "Well, my partner and I are kind of alphas. We're both hyper-independent, and we struggle to let go of control, but we really love this business that we are running." What advice would you give them?

Matt: They say, yeah, that... that's really tough. Yeah. So I think, putting the business to one side, my question to that person would be, "How is having two alphas... how is that working for you? Is that creating a nice, beautiful, elegant dance between the two of you, whether it's in a business or anywhere else?" So, uh... I would say that goes like deeper than business or not, but certainly, it will come out of the business. Imagine if we're trying to... if we're just for control of a certain bit of the business, let's say marketing, for instance, as an example. We... we both want to be the alpha......in the marketing department? Well, good luck. I mean, we can just predict how it's going to look. Every single day, we're just going to be rowing about... we're trying to... trying to have our way, and it's just never, ever going to be comfortable. You probably could... not going to enjoy it. So I would say that... that habit goes deeper than just the business, but it will definitely come out in the business. And yeah, you used to match in a dance with two people trying to lead it at the same time. It's not going to look great.

Rebeca: That's right. And we've had clients who work together in the business, and it just doesn't look good, and this is why they come to us. So I do that... you agree with Matt to... to out of us is no good. Is not a good thing. On the other hand, I would say maybe digital advice can still be in place, but not at the same time. Definitely not at the same time. So... so one would have to be the opposite to Alpha... Mega, would you call it?

Matt: Beta.

Rebeca: Beta. And yeah, but not at the same time. Definitely not, but this is possible, but not at the same time.

Katie: And it needs to... the other thing the two of you are great role models of is trust and respect. And I think that's also essential to what you were just talking about. If you've got two alphas, there's a trust and respect dance that has to happen for this to move... smoothly. Not slowly, but smoothly and creatively. And if you can't trust your partner and let go of control back and forth, vice versa, then you're right, Matt, the question is, "How's that working for... how's your headaches? Are you sleeping well? How's your stomach?" Right? Like, we feel it physically when we have turmoil in our business, and then it impacts the relationship.

Katie: Oh, for anyone who... who is listening and going, "Okay, well, we've been in... we've been in business for a while, and we don't see eye to eye on future goals, where we want to scale, what we want to go to next, maybe..." What are some tips you would have for them with that? What are some, maybe, some stories of you guys that have had to navigate in that realm?

Matt: Yeah. So where we've got just different ideas of where we're... we're heading, really. Yeah. So that's a great question. Katie. I see that as a sort of sub-question of the previous one, like the two alphas, because really that sense of like, direction, goal-setting, go-getting, that's really the alpha mindset. So, you know, it could be the two people align perfectly, and their vision is just exactly the same. In reality, it probably won't be. There'll be some differences, and maybe some big differences. And then the question is, well, who is going to give ground? Who's going to find the... yeah, to what extent are we willing to let go of this dream that we've got? Let's say one of them has a dream to scale the business to whatever size, and the other just doesn't want to do that. Well, the question then is, well, to what extent do we... are we willing to give up our personal dream in order to make the relationship work? And I think that's a question like on... depending, really, on the relationship, you know, because not only in the business, but really any question, because, you know, people do have different ideas about what they want. Maybe one partner wants three kids, and the other wants two kids, and they're like, "Well, what are we going to do?" And, uh, yeah, so it... it's like, "To what extent are we willing to let go of a dream to make it work, to have some flexibility? Or maybe we're not." And I would say that we're not under any obligation to let go of that dream, but the question then is, "Is it still viable to do this thing together?" Because maybe... maybe being true to my dream means also being true to the fact that, well, this just isn't going to work together. That happened, too. So there's a... there's a line that we're walking there, isn't there?

Rebeca: I... I love... I love it. I know I'll be... with Matt... definitely, the word that comes to me is compromise. Yeah, it needs to be compromised, and where... where the decision-taking is a consensus.

Matt: Consensus.

Rebeca: Consensus. Yeah. Both agree. And it requires discussion; it requires good communication and... and compromise. And in these roles, we may have to let go of something. I'm not saying one of... one of us... one of the partners, maybe both of us. We need to accommodate something somehow, you know, at both dreams, to make a new dream, combining both dreams that we had. And I... and something that comes to mind as well is when I met Matt, he said to me very clearly he didn't want to have any more children. And I... and something that many couples do, which I did back in those days, was, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, he will change his mind. Yeah, no problem, man," you know. And then when I... in the future, when I met Diane and her beautiful girls, and Jay's... that's my brother-in-law, Pete, and his wife... then I announced... I saw Matt as well with his boys from his ex-wife, and it was Christmas time, and everyone had their own little chicken, but I was on my own, and I didn't have my little hands and little chicken. And... and I wasn't their attention either, because my... was looking after his boys, you know. So that was, uh... that required, uh... our reckoning and owning the book from my side, because I went along and hoping that he would change his mind. And she waits... Matt didn't. So I'm very now, you know...That's what I repeat. So... but I'm very happy now with my life. I love it; I love what I do. I have more time for myself and to do what I love, and it's all good. But this is what many people do; they just go along hoping that they will try to convince their partners, change their minds. And then what happens is that there is resentment. Yep. And who created that resentment? Is it because of Matt, or is it because of me? So yeah, compromise is... that always a good one? And yeah…

Katie: But such a great point of us recognizing the... often the choices or agreements we may come with expectations in the sub-ground, right? Like, "Well, eventually..." Such I will re-evaluate, and the other partner's like, "No. Like, especially into business? No, I'm... I'm not going to go that route, and we're not going to do that type of marketing. No, this isn't... we're going to be where we scale." And the other's like, "Oh, eventually, they'll change their mind." And that grudge... that resentment builds. So it's good that you mention we have to take ownership for what it is we expected and what we committed to. So to wrap us up, what have been some of the best experiences of working together? What are the joys of it?

Matt: How much we learn together! It's like really, really fun what we're doing, and we meet so many people, and inevitably, we learn something from everyone we interact with, you know. They... they just highlight something in a way that we maybe haven't quite seen it. Obviously, this partners that we see again and again and again. But I think the joy is like helping people, giving something back to the couples and families that we... we work with, but also that we also get to learn so much as we... as we go through. So I think... I feel we found like a really great formula for serving our clients, serving the world, but also enriching our lives and, yeah, growing as people.

Rebeca: Yeah. I also think that, um... the humming moments when we've had massive rows because of our roles not well in place, you know, and the dance being very sloppy and clumsy, and we've learned from that a lot. And now we put in place a code of conduct. When this is to happen in different situations, what we're going to do... we've learned a lot, withdrawn as a couple, not just reservations as well. And I now... I do love when I see old Facebook or Instagram clients that have worked with us, with a new baby, because I see that they are... the little get that I was in the past, is struggling in a quite chaotic family environment, and now they are all in place, the solid foundations that they need to grow up feeling healthy, feeling loved, feeling safe. So my love, that's for me one of the biggest joys. And then when I... when people give us the lovely testimonies that they give us also, it's really... it's really nice; it's really encouragement for us to continue doing what we do because sometimes it's hard, but we just love it.Yeah.

Katie: It's been a really beautiful tool for growth, it seems like, for the two of you: growing together, growing as individuals, and as a business, right? If people want to connect with you that are like, "I'm all about what Matt and Rebeca are about, let me go and find them," where can they find you?

Matt: A great place to start would be our website, alignedwithlove.net. I am... and there's a lot of stuff on there about what we do, with... is the link to our podcast, my book, and you can... there's tons of videos on there explaining in more detail what we do. And you can get, uh... you can also take the scorecard. We have a clarity scorecard where you can ask some quick questions and get you some tailored feedback about the relationship. I'd really encourage everyone to have a go at that. And, but yeah, the website is a great place to start, honestly.

Rebeca: Yeah, and in the website, you can find, "Hola! Hola!" and then, "Hola!" links to the social media. Really, we are on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn as well. And yeah, and if anyone has a challenge, they can just contact that... we are with our free diagnostic conversation, and then we see whether we are a fit for each other and how we can help you, help people. We want to really understand what people are at, what they're going through, feeling... make them feel heard, as smashing...

Katie: I love that. So I will make sure all those links are in the show notes. And Matt and Rebeca, I want to thank you for opening up vulnerably and sharing about, you know, the challenges and the positives of working together, and... and what it's taught you individually and also as a couple. I really appreciate your time.

Matt: Likewise. It's been... been really enjoyable.

Rebeca: Thank you Katie, I really apricate you time as well with us. Thank you.

Katie: Thank you. And dear listener, here's to finding our balance code. Thank you for listening to today's episode. I hope you enjoyed it. Take a moment to leave a rating and a review on your favorite podcast platform. That helps other listeners just like you to find this podcast, too. Want to connect and learn how we can work together? Check out the links in the show notes below. Discovering your balance code doesn't have to be a one-person journey. You can have a team, and I'd love to support you. So here's to finding our balance code.